More on the Multiverse Morality: Beautfy/Symmetry

[hibbsa]

As I am expecting to be set straight about the reality of abstractions issue, I have continued to explore the multiverse morality, which I genuinely experience as one of the most beautiful things I've ever come across. It's all too visual to try to explain beautifully...and anyway the way I see it, eloquent description is unnecessary on this occasion since popperians already see it (or if I'm off my meds, don't see it).

But a couple of the beautiful things:

Choice:
It's like....choice just shows up again and again in more and more different outfits, each one meaning choice but a different dimension of it.
For example, you choose whether you are human or not. Not living purposefully or morally and not trying to be more....what this means is your multiverse true reality is dominated by the quantum possibilities. Which don't need a human being to happen...and happen everywhere else without humans. You can choose that path, but you can't choose to be human and choose that path.

Choice: But if you do choose that path, then you get this life, and you get to be in a moral universe literally of your making. In your universe, your multiverse universe, no such thing as morality even exists, save whatever you want to call for it. Moral relativism is real. The blacks are truly stupider than the whites. The women are whores. It's all happens in the multiverse, it's all equally true.

Choice: But if you do try to be moral and do try to lead a purposeful righteous life.....no matter how big or small, your effort will be rewarded. While there is the tiniest atom of morality in your life, the, that atom will be reflected in some proportionality by a spectrum of colours, dimly but still alive and still there...colours that only a UKC can in the multiverse make. For just one atom remaining, your universe will be one atom moral, and one atom immoral, and one atom hopeful.

Choice: altruism. The multiverses is objective...it's real...it's deterministic....everything is represented there and randomness is impossible there. Morality then becomes objective, real...absolute. Extreme. Extremes. All of them. If not even an atom of morality goes unrewarded...that's an extreme. Another extreme is that you can't put an atom between wrong and evil and 'bad idea'. Morality is binary.

Altruism is a good concept to test the multiverse against. What does an altruistic life look like in the Multiverse? Well...an altruistic life perfectly lived, with purposefulness, consistent reasoning and philosophy, is potentially a grandiose multiverse manifestation indeed.

But look around that perfect life. Everything it touches, everything it touched, diminished and reduced to dust. An altruistic life perfectly lived is an island..a beauty all alone, surrounded by deathly flat motionless water of oceans. All of it once human now just quantum noise. The altruistist is a murderer...a dehumaniser of those touched by his altruism.

Anyway...that'll do fer now. Just trying to keep my multiverse lovin' nicely warm for when that reality of abstractions correction arrives.

[Alan Forrester]

Post by hibbsa
As I am expecting to be set straight about the reality of abstractions issue, I have continued to explore the multiverse morality, which I genuinely experience as one of the most beautiful things I've ever come across. It's all too visual to try to explain beautifully...and anyway the way I see it, eloquent description is unnecessary on this occasion since popperians already see it (or if I'm off my meds, don't see it).
It's like....choice just shows up again and again in more and more different outfits, each one meaning choice but a different dimension of it.
For example, you choose whether you are human or not. Not living purposefully or morally and not trying to be more....what this means is your multiverse true reality is dominated by the quantum possibilities. Which don't need a human being to happen...and happen everywhere else without humans. You can choose that path, but you can't choose to be human and choose that path.
Choice: But if you do choose that path, then you get this life, and you get to be in a moral universe literally of your making. In your universe, your multiverse universe, no such thing as morality even exists, save whatever you want to call for it. Moral relativism is real. The blacks are truly stupider than the whites. The women are whores. It's all happens in the multiverse, it's all equally true.
Choice: But if you do try to be moral and do try to lead a purposeful righteous life.....no matter how big or small, your effort will be rewarded. While there is the tiniest atom of morality in your life, the, that atom will be reflected in some proportionality by a spectrum of colours, dimly but still alive and still there...colours that only a UKC can in the multiverse make. For just one atom remaining, your universe will be one atom moral, and one atom immoral, and one atom hopeful.
Choice: altruism. The multiverses is objective...it's real...it's deterministic....everything is represented there and randomness is impossible there. Morality then becomes objective, real...absolute. Extreme. Extremes. All of them. If not even an atom of morality goes unrewarded...that's an extreme. Another extreme is that you can't put an atom between wrong and evil and 'bad idea'. Morality is binary.
Altruism is a good concept to test the multiverse against. What does an altruistic life look like in the Multiverse? Well...an altruistic life perfectly lived, with purposefulness, consistent reasoning and philosophy, is potentially a grandiose multiverse manifestation indeed.
But look around that perfect life. Everything it touches, everything it touched, diminished and reduced to dust. An altruistic life perfectly lived is an island..a beauty all alone, surrounded by deathly flat motionless water of oceans. All of it once human now just quantum noise. The altruistist is a murderer...a dehumaniser of those touched by his altruism.
Anyway...that'll do fer now. Just trying to keep my multiverse lovin' nicely warm for when that reality of abstractions correction arrives.

Rand didn't say anything about the multiverse. To the best of my
knowledge the connections between quantum mechanics and morality are
rather indirect. None of what you wrote above makes much sense.

Have you ever read anything that Ayn Rand wrote? If so, could you
explain her position in your own words.

Alan

[hibbsa]

Post by Alan Forrester

Post by hibbsa
As I am expecting to be set straight about the reality of abstractions issue, I have continued to explore the multiverse morality, which I genuinely experience as one of the most beautiful things I've ever come across. It's all too visual to try to explain beautifully...and anyway the way I see it, eloquent description is unnecessary on this occasion since popperians already see it (or if I'm off my meds, don't see it).
It's like....choice just shows up again and again in more and more different outfits, each one meaning choice but a different dimension of it.
For example, you choose whether you are human or not. Not living purposefully or morally and not trying to be more....what this means is your multiverse true reality is dominated by the quantum possibilities. Which don't need a human being to happen...and happen everywhere else without humans. You can choose that path, but you can't choose to be human and choose that path.
Choice: But if you do choose that path, then you get this life, and you get to be in a moral universe literally of your making. In your universe, your multiverse universe, no such thing as morality even exists, save whatever you want to call for it. Moral relativism is real. The blacks are truly stupider than the whites. The women are whores. It's all happens in the multiverse, it's all equally true.
Choice: But if you do try to be moral and do try to lead a purposeful righteous life.....no matter how big or small, your effort will be rewarded. While there is the tiniest atom of morality in your life, the, that atom will be reflected in some proportionality by a spectrum of colours, dimly but still alive and still there...colours that only a UKC can in the multiverse make. For just one atom remaining, your universe will be one atom moral, and one atom immoral, and one atom hopeful.
Choice: altruism. The multiverses is objective...it's real...it's deterministic....everything is represented there and randomness is impossible there. Morality then becomes objective, real...absolute. Extreme. Extremes. All of them. If not even an atom of morality goes unrewarded...that's an extreme. Another extreme is that you can't put an atom between wrong and evil and 'bad idea'. Morality is binary.
Altruism is a good concept to test the multiverse against. What does an altruistic life look like in the Multiverse? Well...an altruistic life perfectly lived, with purposefulness, consistent reasoning and philosophy, is potentially a grandiose multiverse manifestation indeed.
But look around that perfect life. Everything it touches, everything it touched, diminished and reduced to dust. An altruistic life perfectly lived is an island..a beauty all alone, surrounded by deathly flat motionless water of oceans. All of it once human now just quantum noise. The altruistist is a murderer...a dehumaniser of those touched by his altruism.
Anyway...that'll do fer now. Just trying to keep my multiverse lovin' nicely warm for when that reality of abstractions correction arrives.

Rand didn't say anything about the multiverse. To the best of my
knowledge the connections between quantum mechanics and morality are
rather indirect. None of what you wrote above makes much sense.
Have you ever read anything that Ayn Rand wrote? If so, could you
explain her position in your own words.
Alan

there was a comedic dimension toward the end...just tongue in cheek..meant respectfully.

there were serious elements too....the moral implications of the multiverse are real, no? Living purposefully for example. Is that not so?

Why do you ask me about Rand? I think very little of her. I want to be more open minded...I respect a couple of popperians who respect her. I was hoping the multiverse could help.

Out of interest why would Rand have to say anything about the multiverse for the multiverse to say something about rand..morally speaking?

Was I totally firing blanks about the moral implications of MWI? I'm sure I've heard Deutsch and Elliot list morality at the top or second of the value MWI gives back.

When I asked him what would be different if MWI was accepted as true in science, research into multiverse morality was among the items he listed.

see here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/24387

"> So my question to Deutsch, if he's around, would firstly be: what sort

Post by Alan Forrester
of acceptance do you have in mind? What would it look like that would be
different to the way things are at the moment?

For instance, there'd be:

In theoretical physics: Work on the structure of the multiverse, its
implications for the theory of probability, deeper explanations of various
quantum algorithms, deeper understanding of the Heisenberg Picture....

In philosophy: Work on things like personal identity, the relationship between
multiple universes and multiple copies in a single universe, morality in the
multiverse...

In theoretical physics, experimental physics and philosophy: Cessation of work
whose only interest is in the context of believing nonsensical
'interpretations'...

In physics teaching: Excision of anti-rational ideologies such as positivism or
shut-up-and-calculate from physics classes."


So...what can be said about the morality of the multiverse if it isn't anything I said? How can there be any morality that doesn't involve exerting influence like living purposefully, non-arbitrarily etc. What other way can multiple identities of a person be influenced from within this one universe?

[hibbsa]

Post by hibbsa

Post by Alan Forrester

Post by hibbsa
As I am expecting to be set straight about the reality of abstractions issue, I have continued to explore the multiverse morality, which I genuinely experience as one of the most beautiful things I've ever come across. It's all too visual to try to explain beautifully...and anyway the way I see it, eloquent description is unnecessary on this occasion since popperians already see it (or if I'm off my meds, don't see it).
It's like....choice just shows up again and again in more and more different outfits, each one meaning choice but a different dimension of it.
For example, you choose whether you are human or not. Not living purposefully or morally and not trying to be more....what this means is your multiverse true reality is dominated by the quantum possibilities. Which don't need a human being to happen...and happen everywhere else without humans. You can choose that path, but you can't choose to be human and choose that path.
Choice: But if you do choose that path, then you get this life, and you get to be in a moral universe literally of your making. In your universe, your multiverse universe, no such thing as morality even exists, save whatever you want to call for it. Moral relativism is real. The blacks are truly stupider than the whites. The women are whores. It's all happens in the multiverse, it's all equally true.
Choice: But if you do try to be moral and do try to lead a purposeful righteous life.....no matter how big or small, your effort will be rewarded. While there is the tiniest atom of morality in your life, the, that atom will be reflected in some proportionality by a spectrum of colours, dimly but still alive and still there...colours that only a UKC can in the multiverse make. For just one atom remaining, your universe will be one atom moral, and one atom immoral, and one atom hopeful.
Choice: altruism. The multiverses is objective...it's real...it's deterministic....everything is represented there and randomness is impossible there. Morality then becomes objective, real...absolute. Extreme. Extremes. All of them. If not even an atom of morality goes unrewarded...that's an extreme. Another extreme is that you can't put an atom between wrong and evil and 'bad idea'. Morality is binary.
Altruism is a good concept to test the multiverse against. What does an altruistic life look like in the Multiverse? Well...an altruistic life perfectly lived, with purposefulness, consistent reasoning and philosophy, is potentially a grandiose multiverse manifestation indeed.
But look around that perfect life. Everything it touches, everything it touched, diminished and reduced to dust. An altruistic life perfectly lived is an island..a beauty all alone, surrounded by deathly flat motionless water of oceans. All of it once human now just quantum noise. The altruistist is a murderer...a dehumaniser of those touched by his altruism.
Anyway...that'll do fer now. Just trying to keep my multiverse lovin' nicely warm for when that reality of abstractions correction arrives.

Rand didn't say anything about the multiverse. To the best of my
knowledge the connections between quantum mechanics and morality are
rather indirect. None of what you wrote above makes much sense.
Have you ever read anything that Ayn Rand wrote? If so, could you
explain her position in your own words.
Alan

there was a comedic dimension toward the end...just tongue in cheek..meant respectfully.
there were serious elements too....the moral implications of the multiverse are real, no? Living purposefully for example. Is that not so?
Why do you ask me about Rand? I think very little of her. I want to be more open minded...I respect a couple of popperians who respect her. I was hoping the multiverse could help.
Out of interest why would Rand have to say anything about the multiverse for the multiverse to say something about rand..morally speaking?
Was I totally firing blanks about the moral implications of MWI? I'm sure I've heard Deutsch and Elliot list morality at the top or second of the value MWI gives back.
When I asked him what would be different if MWI was accepted as true in science, research into multiverse morality was among the items he listed.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/24387
-------------------quote---------------------------------
"> So my question to Deutsch, if he's around, would firstly be: what sort

Post by Alan Forrester
of acceptance do you have in mind? What would it look like that would be
different to the way things are at the moment?

In theoretical physics: Work on the structure of the multiverse, its
implications for the theory of probability, deeper explanations of various
quantum algorithms, deeper understanding of the Heisenberg Picture....
In philosophy: Work on things like personal identity, the relationship between
multiple universes and multiple copies in a single universe, morality in the
multiverse...
In theoretical physics, experimental physics and philosophy: Cessation of work
whose only interest is in the context of believing nonsensical
'interpretations'...
In physics teaching: Excision of anti-rational ideologies such as positivism or
shut-up-and-calculate from physics classes."
-------------------end quote-----------------------------
So...what can be said about the morality of the multiverse if it isn't anything I said? How can there be any morality that doesn't involve exerting influence like living purposefully, non-arbitrarily etc. What other way can multiple identities of a person be influenced from within this one universe?

Just to clarify the final paragraph - the one above - was written by me. My formatting failed to properly differentiate.

It may (eventually) prove worth mentioning, that it was this exchange with Deutsch (quoted above) that triggered the line of thought, not just multiverse morality, but the issues/problems I'm [having, or] trying to raise regarding emergent properties.

What was important - for me - about that (quoted) exchange was the implicit placing of hard scientific aspirations to the core.

Post by hibbsa
implications for the theory of probability"
the relationship between
multiple universes and multiple copies in a single universe

Which if he was right, in turn suggested these two questions should form the core of any MWI analysis where the desired outcome is to say something scientifically interesting....as in predict something non-trivial that can be falsified. Or, for the same coin, get as near as it's going to be possible to get, to a interesting falsification of MWI.

The way I went about making the questions interesting and productive, was by adding a third...Deutsch's Reality of Abstraction explanation... namely Emergence, because allows Deutsch's two question to be converged as representing different 'faces' of the same thing. It also legitimately pushes the level of any analysis to a more abstract level...so enhancing the potential to 'go all the way' and not get bogged down.

Incidentally things stand - so far as I can tell - the issues I have raised are still standing.

Of the other ideas...I( thought the Multiverse Morality most stood out